Originally from Northern Ireland, Clive spent 15 years growing up in Ghana and Nigeria. He later married Kathryn whom he met in Florida. Clive dreamt of becoming a missionary pilot. He worked his way from an aircraft mechanic to becoming a captain of an $8 million private corporate jet. But at 37 years old, Clive was drawn to surrender his career and lifestyle to serve internationally. For 10 years he and his family served in Papua New Guinea, Indonesia, before taking on a new journey.
Clive has three grown children with 2 grandchildren and 2 more on the way! He and Kathryn currently live in Bali, teaching college students English and helping them answer some of life’s biggest questions.
A “third culture kid,” Clive finds himself most at ease in a mix of cultures. In this episode he shares his journey towards his royal identity and challenges us all to yield to God.
Discover more about our guests: Follow Clive on Facebook
Favorite quotes from the episode:
“We are people of God - we’re people of faith - who get to live in another culture and live out our faith”
“Coffee with a friend is a good cup of coffee”
“One of the most important things is to be able to live in an authentic way, the hope that we have in Christ.”
“God is timeless. He is telling His story through people’s lives.”
“We should never lose where we’ve came from. Then we see more of Him and less of me.”
“When we encounter Christ he gives us a new life. A new beginning. A reset.”
“When you’re true and you care and you look at people with a heart of love, people respond to that.”
“We are the benefactors of this journey, even more than we can ever give.”
“We don’t know where He’s going. We don’t know what He’s doing. But we do know that He is at work.”
“When you live this less scripted life, and you allow God to fit into it, He can do what He wants to do.”
“Our God is the only god who wants to be known, and who wants to know you.”
Fun things from the episode:
The book that changed Clive’s life: Peace Child https://amzn.to/2YHqjzT
Clive reference God opens doors no man can shut from Revelation 3:7-8
2Rivers Church - a church has supported The Gray’s for 16 years
If you want to do good around the world you can support Clive and Kathryn. Choose “Clive Gray Kalumis” from the drop down. https://2rivers.churchcenter.com/giving
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/0KYOfrQh9Vs
Share your thoughts: podcast@sarahgood.com
Originally from Northern Ireland, Clive spent 15 years growing up in Ghana and Nigeria. He later married Kathryn whom he met in Florida. Clive dreamt of becoming a missionary pilot. He worked his way from an aircraft mechanic to becoming a captain of an $8 million private corporate jet. But at 37 years old, Clive was drawn to surrender his career and lifestyle to serve internationally. For 10 years he and his family served in Papua New Guinea, Indonesia, before taking on a new journey.
Clive has three grown children with 2 grandchildren and 2 more on the way! He and Kathryn currently live in Bali, teaching college students English and helping them answer some of life’s biggest questions.
A “third culture kid,” Clive finds himself most at ease in a mix of cultures. In this episode he shares his journey towards his royal identity and challenges us all to yield to God.
Discover more about our guests: Follow Clive on Facebook
Favorite quotes from the episode:
“We are people of God - we’re people of faith - who get to live in another culture and live out our faith”
“Coffee with a friend is a good cup of coffee”
“One of the most important things is to be able to live in an authentic way, the hope that we have in Christ.”
“God is timeless. He is telling His story through people’s lives.”
“We should never lose where we’ve came from. Then we see more of Him and less of me.”
“When we encounter Christ he gives us a new life. A new beginning. A reset.”
“When you’re true and you care and you look at people with a heart of love, people respond to that.”
“We are the benefactors of this journey, even more than we can ever give.”
“We don’t know where He’s going. We don’t know what He’s doing. But we do know that He is at work.”
“When you live this less scripted life, and you allow God to fit into it, He can do what He wants to do.”
“Our God is the only god who wants to be known, and who wants to know you.”
Fun things from the episode:
The book that changed Clive’s life: Peace Child https://amzn.to/2YHqjzT
Clive reference God opens doors no man can shut from Revelation 3:7-8
2Rivers Church - a church has supported The Gray’s for 16 years
If you want to do good around the world you can support Clive and Kathryn. Choose “Clive Gray Kalumis” from the drop down. https://2rivers.churchcenter.com/giving
View this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/0KYOfrQh9Vs
Share your thoughts: podcast@sarahgood.com
Sarah:
[1:24] Hey friends welcome back to now that something good I am really excited today to have a longtime friend really now of Will and ours Clive Gray.
Clive:
[1:33] Hello hello Sarah how are you nice to see you again.
Sarah:
[1:36] I'm good. Well, Clive we have to start off so as people are going to hear you speak your accent and my accent sounded a little different and I think people are really going to enjoy listening to hearing you speak
today where we just got started off the bat we're why do our accents sound different.
Clive:
[1:54] Well our accents tone sound different because God made a very interesting world and it's a very diverse world,
but I have a very particular unique accent in that I was born in Ireland Northern Ireland and as a little boy,
I went out on a ship with my mom and dad to Ghana West Africa and my first 15 years of my life was in Ghana and its pre-colonial International accent,
finish some schooling Ireland married a Floridian and lived in Missouri and so,
I have about as neutral and accent as you can get but there's a I'm proud of my Irish accent and if I if you are Irish you would hear it coming back so you would say it would.
Sarah:
[2:32] I would I wish I had an Irish accent my background actually has some Irish descent but.
Clive:
[2:37] Really yes really.
Sarah:
[2:38] Yes that's a story,
it will climb as we get started we're going to go all over today I feel like in our conversation literally all around the world because you have been all around the world but just start us off give us real basic about who Clive gray is and your family and a little bit of your just current context and then we'll jump from there.
Clive:
[2:55] Who's Clive gray well that's that's that's a that's a deep profound question I'm going to save the depth of that question maybe for later on,
but Clive gray is I mentioned geographically where I came from and I mentioned some of the things one of the things I really wanted to do as a young man was to become a pilot,
and so I worked very very hard poor parents of missionaries didn't have any money to send me to flight school and so I came to Florida in the late 80s and I met Kathryn young gal there's a single girl and she was in the youth group their Church.
And she was warned sternly stay away from the curly-haired European fight students she.
Sarah:
[3:37] Probably Sound Advice.
Clive:
[3:38] Shoot it was great Sound Advice however in God's grace we fell in love and we got married.
And it was a bit of a rough Journey at first but by God's grace we have three children two grandchildren and two on the way.
Sarah:
[3:55] That's you have two grandchildren on the way okay.
Clive:
[3:57] Two grandchildren on the way and I just saw a scan on the way in here this little characters moving around and a lot of discussion whether it's a boy or girl but that's Grandpa that's grandparent talk.
Sarah:
[4:07] That's amazing well Clive before we really jump into all of this I have to ask you a really important question so coffee is a really big deal around the good house and by default it's kind of become a thing on the now that something good podcast.
I've told you a little bit our heart about our heart we were telling you about,
the podcast and we love just having conversations around here and so I feel like to have a really good conversation you usually need a good drink now I feel like we slighted you a little bit is I asked you what you wanted to drink when you came in.
Clive:
[4:38] Mmm.
Sarah:
[4:38] And you are nice and just said water and I didn't even give you a coffee option so I apologize.
Clive:
[4:42] That's okay,
so and I have to apologize to you because I did bring a collection of presence because Indonesians where we're working right now are very relational people and to say that I care about you and I care about you means I give you a present,
so a gift means we're friends but more than friends I want to stay friends,
so I have a selection and I brought a couple of presents and I have a couple of precious bags of coffee but here's my problem I come to the u.s. and I it's about a 50-50 chance people are deciding to be water Drinkers and they're not interested in coffee so,
I hesitate but I think I have one of my choice bags in the car.
Sarah:
[5:23] Really.
Clive:
[5:24] So I might change my mind or I will add a present for you and will house a you can tell me.
Sarah:
[5:30] Would be awesome client will is giving a huge thumbs up behind us in the the studio well if you if I would have been nicer and offered you coffee you've been all over the world the sampled if what would be your drink of I mean does it have to be coffee because we say we're equal opportunity people like.
Our water drinkers but what would be your.
Clive:
[5:46] Coffee with a friend.
Sarah:
[5:47] I know it's so.
Clive:
[5:48] Coffee with a friend any coffee with a friend as a good cup of coffee.
Sarah:
[5:51] That is a good I agree with.
Clive:
[5:52] If you drink if you drink a coffee or anything by yourself yeah it's just about you isn't it and so to have a.
Cup of coffee and something to talk about but to connect face-to-face with another person that's the best.
Sarah:
[6:08] I agree with you clap so I hope that if you guys are listening maybe you need to pause us real quick and go get a cup of coffee or a cup of hot tea,
even a glass of water and then pull up and listen to our conversation because I think,
take you on a great little journey with us today so settle in for our conversation so Clive I want to jump back because some of this I've gotten to know you a little bit I'm just going to tell people how we know each,
through 2Rivers Church. 2Rivers Church as been a friend of Clive and Kathryn Gray,
a long time in the ministry that God has called you into and so since I work there I was able to meet you further into the journey you've actually been around 2Rivers longer than I've been around 2Rivers.
Yes but I'm so it is a while but so that's how we got to meet each other and I was just so fortunate that you had time on your schedule when you were here that you would come share with us so this is where I kind of want to start I didn't realize so we're still getting to learn about each other
really we've had a handful of conversations but some of the back story of Clive and Kathryn I don't really know so you just said something interesting I didn't realize your parents
we're missionaries can you talk about I mean like just talk about that for a minute.
Clive:
[7:15] Yeah I mean it's just it was just another world of
cross-cultural missions I mean we're talking about back in the 60s and the 70s here and I mean we read about these people but I was a baby and I was a child and they and and they took us it was a 40 mile across the bumpy road and a big river,
that was just full of crocodiles and then it was five miles on a bicycle to the village where my parents were and I was a little boy and I have been told is about a two year old,
I had bronchial pneumonia which came on very very seriously in the middle of the night no radios no helicopters back then to come and get you and they prayed fervently,
for Clive to make it through the night,
and nobody for At Any cost whatsoever there was absolutely nobody who would be willing to take,
baby Clive my mom and dad across the river.
Across the hospital and the biggest fear wasn't that nobody knew how to use a canoe or the crocodiles it was the spirits that lived in the river,
you damned go across that River at night and they prayed and I've got a strong chest I can run 5k without too much difficulty thanks be to God.
Sarah:
[8:27] That's amazing that see look right there that was a great story I did not know that's a bit so then did you come back so what happen when you grew up you were did.
Clive:
[8:36] I grew up in 15 then I went back to Ireland I went back to Ireland sir and I was there I went to high school there and you know I'm a third culture Kid third culture kids you know multiple passports and
they live in different parts of the world and their he's their most studies in third culture environments,
whether it's an Asian person an African-American we feel most at home in a mix of cultures,
and so what happens is difficult for us when we go back to maybe one little monoculture and I struggle at a big bushy Wild Hair which you guys can see but I don't have any of that right now and it doesn't matter anymore,
but I went back to Northern Ireland there and I really struggled because I hadn't grown up with these people in an estate in Northern Ireland.
So I was on a journey of identity of who I am and God answer that in his time much later.
Sarah:
[9:28] Well I want to hear a little bit more about that but just so Clarity we're going to talk we're going to throw our out the word missionary a little bit if we have friends that are listening and maybe that's not a familiar term to them how would you just explain or Define a missionary.
Clive:
[9:41] Okay well a missionary is an older term and I'll be honest with you it's a term that when the Great missionary and everybody hundred hundred fifty years ago,
missionaries were sent out from England from Wales and went to China they went to Africa and it was just a huge movement and it's going on to today Kathryn myself I think have moved away what kind of,
post,
terminology in many Even in our Christian speaking we got very familiar with things like evangelism and Outreach and none of these words are in the Bible.
Sarah:
[10:13] No they're not right.
Clive:
[10:15] Even missions and so we've got very familiar with these terms so Kathryn myself as we're maturing we're asking deeper questions what does this mean.
And the truth of the matter is it's much simpler this idea of being.
Representative we are people of God where people of Faith who get to live in another environment another culture and we live out that face.
And there's something more wholesome about that people become less of a project people feel less put-upon.
Sarah:
[10:48] Right right.
Clive:
[10:49] And when you befriend people out there and you get to know them and they realize you're not one of those.
Sarah:
[10:54] Right you're not coming.
Clive:
[10:56] Something and answer your question.
Sarah:
[10:57] It does and I want to come back to that in a minute because I think that's huge and I think that's something that we could all live by better but let's Legend will come back.
Clive:
[11:07] Let's go you want to go out you want to go back to the story.
Sarah:
[11:08] Yes though I want to hear all this so I'm fascinated by a pilot did you always know.
Clive:
[11:14] I always wanted to be a pilot when I was a little kid in Nigeria I saw a little airplane landing they say I was about 5 years old and I do remember this little Mission airplane landing and I remember going with my mom and dad,
and I remember the pilot playing chess with my dad,
in the cockpit and I just thought how amazing is this and it's something I always wanted to be not just a pilot but I wanted to be a missionary pilot.
[11:40] And so I worked very hard I was useless at school I was bored but when it got serious about learning I was a mechanic aircraft mechanic,
and it was extremely difficult married to Kathryn and a baby trying to buy diapers and trying to find pull together some the fees to become a pilot,
and get some flight time and it took many many hard days waiting on tables and Welding trailers and painting houses and cutting trees but eventually we came up I met a family in st. Louis in Florida,
and and they took me on as their corporate pilot,
and guy in an Armini suit and he was an Italian and he just said Clive I like you man I like the way you fly the plane I like the way you talk to my people I like you the way you remember our names and he says I want you to be my Pilot's,
and that was five years of wonderful experience down in Florida and then we came up to st. Louis,
and yeah I came to st. Louis at that time finally jet Cola Lear jet Pilots were in great demand and I was a captain and I could pick and choose in the early 90s and so we came out to Lake st. Louis and,
drove a little Minivan and went to church and we would just good,
we were just good people but I'll be honest with you Sarah I was on a journey my early life I made a lot of crazy choices.
[13:05] And I thought I had discounted and disqualified myself in the Christian service.
[13:11] And so in the middle of taking care of some very powerful family and here in St Louis and,
and flying for them taking care of their meals and their rent a cars and hotels I was a butler of the sky and I did that for several years and then God came God came knocking on my door,
which surprised me I'll never forget getting this book in the mail and I don't know maybe maybe an angel delivered it I don't know where it came from Sarah
but I got this book called The Peace Child and it was an amazing story of a young couple in the 60s
paddling Upstream with a little child into the tribespeople of irian Jaya which is now west Papua
and I was so struck by that story I just couldn't put the book down how God revealed himself in the darkest of places and how lives were changed.
In my corporate life flying out eight million dollar chat just was the most Farhan contrast.
[14:11] And I'll never forget flying to Colorado where we regularly went it was winter time was a day similar to the day very clear and cold and I will remember.
Very vividly how much visibility and that's the visible how far we can see ahead,
and I could see a hundred miles a hundred and twenty miles and I've never seen that much distance before across these beautiful Rockies,
the plane was an auto pilot the copilot was doing their business and I remember the flickering of the screens to this day and all I sense was God's spirit keep bringing this book back into my mind and it wouldn't let me go.
And I remember almost zooming back out of my life and I had a moment of me and this extremely wealthy experience with these people.
And I had a sense that God just asked me a question clave what are you doing,
what what is this I was 37 years old I'm at the top of my career and managing big responsibilities and God saying what are you doing.
Is it good question.
Sarah:
[15:14] That's a good question.
How did you eat.
Clive:
[15:18] If you can't answer that.
Sarah:
[15:19] Are you leaving us their client way does a cliffhanger.
Clive:
[15:22] I'm well that's a good story isn't it yeah you got it you got it if you dial in next week I'll finish that.
Sarah:
[15:27] Your fake call come back next.
Clive:
[15:31] I'm still answering that question I don't think we should ever stop asking that question you know when we say that God is done with us and we are now in a under place of understanding and we know him we've stopped.
Sarah:
[15:43] Hm
Clive:
[15:45] I think yeah and so the amazing thing is that Kathryn and her wisdom my wonderful wife and wisdom she said you need to go talk to Pastor Gary who was Pastor the time up another church,
and he'd been a spiritual mentor of mine Sarah and she said go have lunch with him so I'm sitting across the table with this lovely elderly man who's now in heaven.
And he said Clyde what's going on and I said I'll tell you what's going on I said I read this book and I said it won't let me go he said what's holding you back.
And I said you know my story you know some of the crazy things I've done.
And I said I don't feel worthy that God could use me and cross-cultural be a minister and work overseas.
Welcome.
Sarah:
[16:36] Alexa must have thought.
Clive:
[16:37] Alexa please come and join us.
Sarah:
[16:40] I'm telling you random things happen sometimes okay.
Clive:
[16:42] I think we're confusing the algorithm there things they've never heard of before but I reached across this and he said what's holding you back.
And you know here I am a head of a large extremely valuable flight operation with all the responsibilities that come with it and and I'm carrying my head in shame and I said you know my story.
You know my legacy that in my background you know my store and you know there's some of the many foolish things that I've done years ago I don't feel worthy that God could use me.
And with a big tear in his eye without a hesitation a big smile he said but you're absolutely right Clive you're not worthy.
It is your life with Jesus that makes you Worthy.
And I had to take that in because I believe that but it hadn't let it in and that's the truth of the matter that I we're not worthy he said,
none of us are worthy without Christ and it's not until we really yield to that place he says that God can really begin to use us and that was,
2002 so that's some of the stuff.
Sarah:
[17:49] That's huge well I want to just ask you a question about that because I feel like you probably just touched on something that probably I know I have felt in my life
probably every single person listening can identify on some level to go hey I kind of feel like there's this stirring or something but
I couldn't do that because I'm not worthy or I'm not qualified in this area or I don't have the training or fill in the blank with anything what would you say to just encourage our friends further if they're feeling that are saying that right now.
Clive:
[18:19] Yeah well I mean if we just look at scripture and the enemy is a master at tricking us,
into giving us a false identity of false self Who We Are,
I mean some people is an imposter syndrome and a lot of people deal with this issue they put on a face they put on even a good religious Christian face but they deal with this inner life that's in conflict with that,
and the truth of the matter is he the enemy or ourselves and doubt is constantly Whispering these lies to us and it brings on fear brings on anxiety brings on doubt now.
To do that would be not human.
Sarah:
[18:59] Right right.
Clive:
[18:59] Right Sarah and so.
And also to stay in a place of woundedness is something where we need help with and we are Salat on a journey for that,
but I think there are a lot of people even very professional people in Ministry be very qualified people,
live with his strong sense that I shouldn't be here and and I'm a I'm an imposter.
Sarah:
[19:23] Right right.
Clive:
[19:24] But it's not about me it's not about you Sarah it's about God at work in us and so we getting into some big stuff early on here.
Sarah:
[19:34] This is where we go here Clive this is where that's the good stuff because I think so many people struggle right we don't do God has sometimes called us to do because like I said the enemy is a liar and we feel we get paralyzed sometimes,
and then we're not doing any of that and that's what the enemy would love because if we're not using the gifts that God has called us to do then,
the enemy in the Kingdom of evil is continuing the wind when Gods like hey I need you and I can actually use that Brokenness and I can use those messed up parts if you would bring them to me I'm going to help and then,
you're going to do amazing things and it's not by yourself it's not Clive it's not Sarah it's with God.
Clive:
[20:11] Okay and we forget scripture we forget the you know the disciples not just the ones we regularly read about the 12 but there were many many disciples and God continued to use some of the least qualified some of the least worthy if we were to write the script,
you know you've got swindlers any.
Sarah:
[20:28] Yes mmm.
Clive:
[20:28] Prostitutes and you've got you know people Samaritans near the lowest of lows,
you know in our society today we too have people that we think are the lowest of lows but when they yielded and they come to Christ and they decide that they're going to follow him fall,
I think we should never lose where we came from and so then we see more of him and less of me.
Sarah:
[20:55] That's all of our goals need to be that we just sometimes get ourselves in the way so you had that conversation with your pastor friend what happened after like what.
Clive:
[21:05] At that very moment Sarah honestly the sum of the weight of I literally felt a burden of Shame had been lifted from me.
Sarah:
[21:10] Hmm yeah yeah.
Clive:
[21:13] That the enemy had put on my shoulders and I'm sure people listening today can identify with,
with crazy foolish things that they've done in their past,
and it's a lie of the devil just to keep you in that place there because when we end when we encounter Christ he gives us this new life gives us this new beginning he resets.
Our journey and by the way he wasn't asleep when all that took place but he still loves you and he still wants to know you and he wants to use you and some of the most extraordinary stories in Christian missions there have been some of the people who went,
agencies and they were.
One lady was 22 went out to Hong Kong and she said she went to seven agencies and they said no come back at 25 that's our policy for being mature enough she says but God's calling me now,
and now almost 50 years later when you see what God did for this woman it's just extraordinary and so yeah.
Sarah:
[22:12] Okay so you had that moment but something has so what happened between Clive gray who was flying corporate planes had this great job all this stuff and then kind of had this pull and draw God clearly calling you what happened that,
what happened.
Clive:
[22:27] There was there was there was no King there was another channel that was going on Sarah okay now you're having me think of things that I haven't thought of in a while,
yeah I don't know if the story is getting bigger or the memories getting smaller okay maybe both but one of the things that was running at the same time is we had a comfortable life,
you know kids when Christian School I was making a very good salary but we were finding ourselves competing with peers even though I wasn't,
the millionaire that's we were flying around we ended up on this treadmill of needing more and acquiring more
and the Lord was beginning to show that Clive and Kathryn, too was on this on this life of me... there's a self focused,
and my comfort in my entertainment and my importance with my peers in Sunday school or whatever and I looked at how dissatisfied.
[23:24] The,
Millionaires and the stars and the football players that I flew with Millions upon millions and had homes in three states but they're colonists and The Emptiness came through,
and I the Lord was just giving me a glimpse of 37 kind of at the cusp in life saying you know I have more for your life I want to use you and your journey so far,
and so then he we,
we went we sold we sold our house we gave stuff away we donated it's funny because you got to Sunday school and you tell people that you're leaving by the time we got home,
our answering machine was full we told people that we were leaving and the answer machine was fallen and I remember one message that says,
Clive out you know we just think that's wonderful that you and Kathryn are going to go overseas sorry forgive my bad American accent,
and and you know we just think God bless you and we just we want to be behind you and we're really excited about you are you selling a mower.
Sarah:
[24:28] Oh my goodness they were asking for your stuff before you even that's a.
Clive:
[24:31] Does it does it cuz it could that happen you can see that happening.
Sarah:
[24:36] Yes that's hilarious you're like hey I'm not even left and you want to buy my stuff okay great.
Clive:
[24:42] So we went to Bible College even though we didn't need to go we went to Ireland for Bible College and all the way along the way you know we didn't have we had savings and we had some resources for a semester.
And this began the journey we didn't have a second semester of college fees and,
I remember the day it was time to come up with the money after Christmas,
and this was one of many many many examples of the journey since then a gentleman who owns a backhoe company he said just a small operator he's barely known as he comes and knocks on my mom's door.
Any pounds on the door and he wouldn't come in he was acting kind of weird and uneasy and I invited him to come in and have a cup of tea that's what we do in Ireland.
And he's gave me an envelope he said God told me to give this to you and it was a large envelope of cash and it was exactly what we needed for the next semester.
Now that was in 2004 2005 and we went to language school and story after story after Story Of God being with us surprising us protecting us and providing,
yeah how much time do you got.
Sarah:
[25:52] No either so good well I want to hear a couple of those stories but I want to back up so because Kathryn's not here to share her part of
story but I'm just wondering like what was going on like was God moving in
her heart at the same time or was this like a hey I think we should sell our stuff and go be a missionary like that could be a hard conversation depending on how that so I need to know a little more details about how that went class.
Clive:
[26:17] A great question now to enter the the the depths and the plums of a woman's mind,
is beyond I'm not sure anybody can.
Sarah:
[26:29] That's that's probably a very true.
Clive:
[26:31] Here will laughing behind me.
Sarah:
[26:33] Yes.
Clive:
[26:34] But I get glimpses of this your correct Kathryn had worked so hard and we free so many years we had done without anything we were so poor for so long,
now there were modest luxuries,
and there's safety and convenience has and convey you know there were some things that she could decide what to do with her day and there was money in Banks,
things like that so it's a good question because it wasn't just about my journey and thank you for bringing that out the the funny thing is that,
God was dealing with Kathryn at the same time unbeknownst to me,
she grew up in a small broken family in Florida and she came to came to know the Lord later in a Teenage life and she just had so many things against us or as an only child
and she was the least likely person to go on a mission trip says she went to Nicaragua and she's building buildings and she's using plaster and mortar and Bricks
and she's down there building bricks in the middle of the sunset red of the Noonday sun and she just realized with her soft manicured hands.
[27:44] I am being I'm being asked to do something that I've never done before and she began to get a sense that God was asking her to do something different
now the funny thing is I didn't want to tell Kathryn about this book and I didn't want to tell Kathryn about the stirring in my heart I didn't want to disappoint her
I didn't want to let her know and who knows what crazy stuff would begin
so for three weeks I held off from Kathryn telling her meanwhile she goes to Nicaragua and the deeper things that God was doing in her life Sarah,
she didn't want to tell me she says claves work so hard for his career and look at him now,
and he's finally made it and it's a pretty cushy number and so she basically said for three weeks she she held this in her heart and we came together one day and we started to share notes which is you know,
as a good husband and wife do and we East into this realization I thought you didn't want to we'll ever considers and she says I thought you wouldn't,
and I said well so are you saying that you're going to begin this crazy Reckless abandoned life,
and I would like to think I would like to thank Sarah that she wouldn't I'm quite sure she wouldn't doubt for a minute,
it has been the most amazing journey that was still on.
Sarah:
[29:02] Yeah you are still a lot of I love I love that story so much because I think God can when he's really moving and sometimes there's reasons why both spouses won't I mean or whatever there's things that happen but I think when lives are really,
just humbled to whatever God and he's working and moving its he does it in both people especially when it's big huge stuff like that.
Clive:
[29:23] And I think he doesn't have different times to they may be planting a seed I mean he was stirring for in as a young man to be a missionary pilot.
And then the missionary pilot season ended and now we're still in we're still involved in Christian work over there but God God Is Timeless right and he's telling his own story.
Sarah:
[29:39] Yes yet yes.
Clive:
[29:41] In people's lives and when they Couple come together sometimes that it's out of sync but God knows what he's doing.
Sarah:
[29:49] He does he does so you guys your first kind of big I must say yes move tell everybody where that was.
Clive:
[29:57] We were in Lake st. Louis with a nice house and the house didn't sell,
and we had money to pay the mortgage and again some people we were really concerned that the house was going to cause us a problem we're in Bible College we're living by faith we had no other source of income at that time,
but a group of men who knew me and met with me that he wanted to know what mortgage payment bill was and where the bank was and they said we'll take care of one month and I think they paid 12 months.
Sarah:
[30:26] That's amazing.
Clive:
[30:27] That's mortgage insurance right.
Sarah:
[30:30] Yeah that is at its best that's correct yes so you guys did that and then went to Ireland for.
Clive:
[30:37] We went to Ireland and then 2Rivers were a big part of setting us up and packing us up,
who's got two thumbs up to you know and again the surprise was we didn't have a strong relationship there was some key people heard Kathryn myself we had a good Round Table in some Cafe Down K.
And then we got a phone call from one of your key guys way back then who said we're going to take you on.
And others have fallen but 2Rivers are still with us and but you know it's wonderful that happened Legacy and to have that support sick 15 16 years with 2Rivers Church.
And it only got better and now we've got Sarah running the show.
Sarah:
[31:18] That's that's not a true I'm one of many well so talk to me for just a second too because I love to hear all the different angles you said you had three children so when you moved in went to is pappu oh right is that the.
Clive:
[31:31] We went to Java to learn the language Bahasa Indonesia and we had to learn the trade language and.
Sarah:
[31:38] How is that I mean.
Clive:
[31:40] Kathryn I don't know if it's just the way my brain works in my wife but she just picked it up and she I think she did a homework and I.
Sarah:
[31:45] Wow.
Clive:
[31:48] But she just raced through it and she just you know they she was just saying good morning hello and you know I've got a Blue Roof just like that.
Sarah:
[31:55] And what's the name of the language.
Clive:
[31:56] Bahasa Bahasa Indonesia.
Sarah:
[31:58] Can you say something to us in.
Clive:
[32:00] Bali so you can buy which other Bahasa Indonesia Nama Saya Park live then yeah siapa Camus is my name is Clive and what's your name.
Sarah:
[32:09] That's a maze that's I love it.
Clive:
[32:11] But it didn't go that well at first and it was a very humbling experience because I remember Sarah sitting with about 20 other westerners in this language school and module one is a month long.
And we have to learn greetings where we live how are you I have three children and how many children do you have,
is pretty basic stuff and it's not a difficult language well.
I don't know if I was dreaming out the window or what but I quickly fell behind and the dances of the thicker Rose moved to the back of the class and the brainy boxes move forward it didn't outpace me I just fell behind,
well they have an interview with to make sure you make this easy transition into module 2 and everybody races through module two,
and they had an interview with me to make sure that you know they wanted to thank me and they just had they said we just have a few questions for you
Clive we just want to encourage you we thank you for all that you've done we have a few questions for you so they are simple questions you know what's your name that what's the color of the roof of your house,
and we had learned this in a month and so I answered them.
[33:20] And they smiled and they look very kindly at me there were three of them and they plot is the coaches and they said Park life we really appreciate your participation and thank you for coming to our country,
your question the answers were very good answers unfortunately.
The answers didn't match the questions we asked I said did any of them they said no.
Sarah:
[33:46] You gave the wrong answers to the wow.
Clive:
[33:48] But what a humbling experience Sarah from running and flying millionaires in a Learjet to being the idiot to the back of the.
And so but it was it was a rich Journey because it was more than language we're learning culture we're learning some examples and.
Sarah:
[34:00] Hmm right so I have to ask I mean so somehow how did you get yourself I was like who's who they must have let you back in somehow or.
Clive:
[34:07] That was that was 15 years ago I did graduate and and we we do speak Kathryn I speak Bahasa Indonesia.
Sarah:
[34:19] And how long were you guys in Indonesia.
Clive:
[34:21] We were in 10 years on the island and then I was visiting with the kids came back and.
We went back and did a master's degree and we did some further training as our kids grew up and settled and we really really wanted to go back again I was visiting Indonesia for a month at a time,
and in October Kathryn I moved it in the middle of a pandemic people thought we were crazy witch,
and God opened the dorm scripture says you know when God opens the door no man can shut it and to have that confidence,
that we follow God I mean the same God same God who parted the Red Sea the same God who showed himself as a pillar of Fire.
Pillar of cloud I mean he's a God who wants to be known he's a God who wants to be seen and we didn't have any pillars of fire in our lives but we did have that same God leading us and guiding us and I think the more time we've been out there the more we are confident in that.
Sarah:
[35:18] That's amazing so you are saying so you now tell everybody cuz I think you didn't we didn't fully say or come back around now where are you in cash.
Clive:
[35:25] Now we're on the island Indonesia is an island a bunch of islands it's a huge beautiful beautiful country and each one of these islands you've got some art rasila way see by the way great coffee come from each of these islands man.
Sarah:
[35:38] Good to know and then they make a trip.
Clive:
[35:40] And Java and then there's the island of Bali,
and it's a very Hindu country it's primarily Hindu and they are beautiful people they're very traditional people they have very beautiful,
outfits and they have ceremonies on the street or on the beach all day long all all through the weeks they somebody's doing something.
And they'll really lovely people to get to know.
Sarah:
[36:02] Hmm and just tell us I know you know we joke I kind of asked you I said what's Kathryn doing today in your like every day is a little different but kind of just tell us I know you're just building relationships right now what is.
Clive:
[36:15] Long relationships Kathryn is already well into Wednesday morning so she's 14 hours ahead of us.
And Kathryn is down there and she's got people she's meeting she's got professor she works with and the local University,
and I'm not sure which day it is but three two days a week we have three students that come to our house and yes it's to enhance their English.
Always life questions those deeper questions of why we're here,
what is really important and in those contexts Kathryn myself were able to share so I hover around I get the bottles of water and help with the food and and make sure the technology works if she needs it,
but I'm listening and when God leads I sit down and we just had some extraordinary extraordinary stories just a few weeks ago one of the gentleman,
his whole thesis is on something about queen and the whole story of Bohemian Rhapsody so.
Sarah:
[37:15] Because these are college students right just to clarify their clock college students okay.
Clive:
[37:19] And this this whole idea and I just jumped in there and I said I don't know if you know this I do like Queen and I do
his music is very classic and very talented but I don't know if you know this but he has with many of these rock stars they wrote from a deep place of pain,
and they all agreed they all knew that and we got into a whole conversation about how that empty vacuum in one's life that emptiness,
that many of these things have I said there's only one Blaze you're going to feel that you're only going to fill that when you encounter Jesus the Living God for yourself eyes,
yeah eyes get really big when they keep hearing that over and over,
so to live life they're in in context in a relational context it's most important and I think this is one of the shifts for us Sarah is moving away from program mindset,
where we study a manual how to do this sharing our faith,
it comes out canned and people can tell and so when we're having a bad day or we're needing some encouragement from our faith in God to be able to share that.
[38:30] But most importantly to live even in difficult times we covid so big issue down there right now a lot of people have lost their jobs one of the most important things is to be able to live in authentic way the hope that we have,
in knowing Christ,
and they are very relational people they're very perceptive people and they can tell when there's any big word disingenuine disingenuous,
when there's anything insincere but when you're true and you care and you look people,
with a heart of love people respond to that.
Sarah:
[39:08] Yes you might tell us a any other stories just from your time there or.
Clive:
[39:13] Well yeah it's just been an extraordinary time down there I think one of the things that can increasingly opens our eyes is to Juan that commitment to Faith I mean they're just incredibly committed people whether you're Muslim
whether you come from another one of the religions or Hindu,
other I mean their commitment to appeasing the gods is tremendous I mean they're up every day praying and they're making sacrifices and it's extremely important to them,
so it's cultural in a spiritual but it's just amazing how how committed they are to them,
but I think the other thing that's open our eyes a lot Sarah has also just the prevalence of Darkness it's a very it's an island of the Gods it's an island of the Demons.
And there's so many things I cannot answer other than the fact that we have just had some amazing,
some pretty rough times we're not just the presence of Darkness but they actually have shown them self not visibly but they,
they revealed themselves to us but he claimed the name of Jesus over them they run they run like they run like a like the squirrel out that window.
Sarah:
[40:26] That's good that's good what's been the biggest as you've gotten to experience different cultures,
firsthand what has been one of the maybe let's say this way like most surprising thing about being in Bali that maybe just you wouldn't have realized or just something beautiful about their culture their and the people there and.
Clive:
[40:45] Well again I come back to this I mean I haven't lots of experience living in different countries,
and I love a variety of food okay they have all their wonderful curries and they have but it's funny because you know for the Muslim they don't eat pork,
and some of the Hindus won't eat beef and so if in doubt Kathryn and I will just make a vegetable stew and we play it safe.
[41:10] But I think what's probably surprised us most,
is just the awareness the awareness of the darkness and the forces that have been they say the dogs see the see the demons and,
I hope I don't lose anybody here but there was one particular night and I've had several but it was one particular night where the dogs just went crazy in the middle of the night.
And sure enough there was a bang on the door and click click clatter and in the room at night in the middle of the night and Kathryn's with me asleep I'm used to this I am this is all this is nothing new but this particular time,
the you could feel the Goosebumps you just feel the presence of Darkness it's a presence it's an actual thing and I just claim the name of Jesus I said in the name of Jesus I command you to leave you have no Authority,
here and they leave the dogs barked again I said really,
foom in they come again third time the dogs were announcing the arrival of the dark,
and this time I lost my breath it was like somebody was taking air out of me and yes that kind of freaked me a little bit.
Sarah:
[42:21] He has say that's a little scary Clive.
Clive:
[42:23] So now I said okay sweetheart enough of your beauty sleep night I'm going to wake you up this time and usually I let her sleep,
and I woke her up and I said Kathryn pray with me and she heard it I said listen there are the dogs here they are will chase them off again.
But what I think I share that story with the past a couple and the Indonesian is if you enter this conversation they're quite privileged and honored that you understand the war of Darkness that,
that everybody is that over there,
and I remember asking her I said what happened with me and the dogs she had a beautiful perspective she said 111 never thought of before she said isn't that beautiful Clive.
You had that experience with Jesus.
Instead of looking at the demons she flipped it and she saw Jesus with me and so but all this journey to trust to trust God Sarah to have him provide for you and protect you,
is what I'm getting to see what Kathryn died we are the we are the benefactors of this journey even more than we could ever give.
Sarah:
[43:29] So amazing I want to jump back live ask you a question because you have three kids you said they're all grown.
Clive:
[43:34] Yes yes.
Sarah:
[43:36] What was just I mean I know I am asking you to speak on their behalf but how old what was the age ranges kind of when you first took them from here because they spent most of their time growing up in the United States and then,
you guys went to Indonesia what did how old were they when all that was kind of.
Clive:
[43:53] Well Kathryn forgave me she'll have the dates in her head and I won't.
Sarah:
[43:56] They like little Elementary School.
Clive:
[43:58] Chloe was 8 Kelsey would have been about 11 or 12 and Colby was 13 14.
We were told that around 14 is the threshold for changing cultures okay after that you kind of need to stay there one of the things I think ask myself agreed upon when it came to this journey as we included them.
And rather than dictating that we were going to hold them out of their friends and I'll never forget sitting in this empty house in Lake st. Louis we had given away,
and sold our lawn mowers and anything any of our junk that people really wanted to have neither gave it to them and we sold it to them and I'll never forget sitting in this empty room.
In the house there was a comfortable house with our kids who had Christmas has there who had friends play there and we had shared meals there.
Chloe and Kelsey and Colby and Kathryn and Clive sat on this floor with no furniture and we're at the cusp of getting ready to leave on this crazy journey and I remember Kathryn died one of us brought up.
You know just want to make sure you guys are okay with this and you're okay at peace with this.
Sarah:
[45:05] Yeah.
Clive:
[45:08] And which we felt that they had been included in the decision because I would say if one of them had felt very firmly not to do it I think that we would have really listened to that.
But I remember Colby sitting up he was kind of laying on the floor he was out on his back and he wasn't dialed in as a 13 year old or 12 year old I remember him sitting up and he now looked straight at us and he said,
if God has told us to do that as a family not to do would be disobedient he said we have to do this.
And that was that was for my child.
Sarah:
[45:39] They say they have childlike Faith right and sometimes our kids are the biggest ones just going hey no this is what this is what we should do we need to do this and just they trust so much easier sometimes than we do the older we get,
I love that okay Clive so I want to ask you a question another question you and Kathryn have been married 30 years.
Clive:
[45:59] Is the assembly past 30 years.
Sarah:
[46:01] It's amazing because
in today's day and age a lot of people do not make it being married that long which is sad so we're gonna I'm gonna share some information with all of our people listening we're going to be this is going to air February this is should be the third I think when people are listening to it this is just the day
before so you know here in America we you know Valentine's Day that's,
a big deal and we're not going to be cheesy around here about it but I know he got don't forget no and we're not big on Commercial holidays in the good family we kind of will I never remember this is a will good story early on him is it was just always like well why,
I should just give you gifts anytime like it's isn't it losing something if I give you a gift because there's a holiday that tells me I should and so part of me was like that's beautiful and pardon,
I think I should get gifts on both I'm just I didn't really,
we relationships are so big and whether it is a husband-wife whether it's friends whether you're in a dating stage or just whatever that is relationships are huge,
but because you've been married for 30 years Clive I feel like you have some wisdom that you could impart on all of us no matter whether our listeners are married or they're single what has been maybe one of the,
biggest what's the bet what's in that piece of advice you can give somebody who's Maybe.
Clive:
[47:16] Yeah.
Sarah:
[47:17] Not quite as far along yeah can you think of.
Clive:
[47:19] So to the I was told early on from a wise old man and Ireland he says Clive there's essentially there are two words that you really need to get down well and they are Yes dear.
Okay so the more I can say that the more that I can live that.
But you know a wife is a wonderful example of that you know it's just a great example of living out my faith,
it's easy to go and listen to it and it sleazy to go even to sit and have a coffee and tell somebody else how to do it,
but to walk in life because I'm an errantly selfish person I mean I want to take care of me and my needs.
Sarah:
[48:01] I think we all want to do that.
Clive:
[48:02] Yeah,
and I it's about me and I wake up every morning with this big self and the spiritual maturity journey is to yield that Sarah and to give that over and say it's not me,
you know my life isn't my own it's a gift and it's not about me and the first person beside me when I wake up is this wonderful woman and a great place where I can,
yield and it may she may have asked one more time that I feel like going to make her a nice coffee every morning,
wherever we on the world she says nobody makes it.
[48:38] Cold Americano with ice and she says she says it's the love that I put into it I stir,
the love I started and you know this is something that Kathryn and I have and we do have little things like that but it's in very in every instance of any relationship any time there's a conflict the ego is involved,
and when the egos involved it gets offended it is put out and it's what a great place when you're with a partner in life who share space and does things differently,
to be able to say ah.
[49:14] But eat because I love you I'm going to put you first and I'm going to yield and I will get up and I will go and do that,
because I love you and it all spills Sarah it all spills out of a knowing that I am loved and my life isn't my own,
and so I think that's the first story to get right.
Is to become more and more and I think I think one of the the one of the most important areas of the spiritual maturity,
is becoming more and more aware
Jesus is with me okay it's one thing to agree with it it's one thing to read it it's another thing to believe it,
but it's another thing to live out of this increasing awareness that the Living God who created heaven and earth,
lives in me has given me life and hope and the promise of Heaven,
he's given me hope and where does it end and so when that begins to fill in it begins to spill over spills over to Kathryn it spills over the people beside me now,
it's all very theoretical and heart in life it's harder to implement that but those are the building blocks of the core of the Christian faith is to let what God has done for me or for you and let it show itself because we show God,
in in our relationship.
Sarah:
[50:40] I love that club that was a great answer it has to start with Jesus and knowing.
Clive:
[50:43] It's a true answer.
Sarah:
[50:45] Is it his love for us and it spills out into everything so I want to go back you when I asked you to kind of Define what a missionary term was just in case somebody had never heard that term or it is like you said a little bit.
Outdated almost now in our cultural,
ocular and you had a beautiful definition of that just building relationships and sharing just what Jesus has done and just it doesn't have to be these huge amazing things can you just I think for so many people myself included,
that's hard to know like hey whether we're here in America,
or were in Bali or wherever we are we have the hope of Jesus when we've made him the Lord and savior of our life but it can be harder feel daunting to talk about that,
or how to know how to share that or what to do can you just talk from it what could you just share with us or encourage us to do just in our everyday.
Clive:
[51:37] Yeah it's a great question Sarah and it all comes back to the trueness or how authentic.
Sarah:
[51:45] Hmm.
Clive:
[51:45] With God really is and I don't know how to begin to measure you know and it's not really it doesn't really have to do with the length of period of time,
sure to memorize and know scriptures extremely important but that in of itself,
I know many people who can quote no scripture have read all those great ministers and missionaries on the world but you get in their presence,
you realize that there's something still missing,
and for me where I think God moves most is when you know another lovely word that is congruent e it's where there's agreement.
Sarah:
[52:24] Mmm-hmm.
Clive:
[52:26] So who Clive is and who Kathryn is,
in the house and when we are alone is who we are when we present them in front of another person I think the other thing too I would encourage people as I think this idea about being a worker,
Christian worker who lives out their faith,
in another land I think one of the problems is with professionalized a lot of ministry even ministry as a word that we're stepping back from,
there are good people doing work but I think one of the things that Kathryn myself are beginning to really realize is that,
it is extremely important that we realize that we're not worthy we are just servants we are just servants who have done our Duty and.
People can tell if you carry this are.
Spiritual maturity if you've got this educational and Indonesians are particularly sensitive,
to this air of they have a wood called Sam bong it's this arrogance is what it is.
But if you can present yourself in a genuine authentic way that you're no different than them you're without Jesus in my life I'm in big trouble.
[53:43] And and so for us to realize that we really need to go back to some of the basics you know those early disciples that were known to be unschooled men okay who'd been with God,
and what a compliment they had been they people could look from a distance and said this person has been with God.
[54:04] And I'll tell you a little story if I mean because it's a beautiful moment I remember being on a trip down to Bali and I was by myself on the beach,
which was rare and I've sat on this little coffee early in the morning having a cafe a coffee by myself and it was a woman in the table beside me,
I've never seen him before there was no indication what nationality she was and she was looking at the volcano
which is across the bang it's the big Central volcano in the whole of Berlin and it's the center of the whole island and I could not help but notice she had folded her hands now I'm not looking at her face I'm looking at her side
but she folds her fingers into locked and she bows her head and she obviously looks like she's praying well,
everybody praying in Bali everybody's on the beach and they're praying to the sun there's very new a lot of new age but it's an extremely spiritual place so there's nothing unusual about that.
But there was something Sarah that leptin side of me something of joy that I have I cannot explain and the woman then looked up and she was on her phone and,
she got up to leave a little while later and I could not help,
but stopped her as she passed my table I said I'm really sorry but I hope you don't mind me asking but did I see you praying and she said I was.
[55:25] Everybody on the beach saw her praying if they were looking at him I said,
but up to whom or to what were you praying I see you looking I saw you looking at the mountain I made it easy for her right she could tell me who she was and she says I was praying to God I was praying to Jesus,
and I said huh I said let me just tell you that I don't know you ain't I've never seen you before but there was something.
That leptin me he who is in me identified the Living God in you,
and I call that a glimpse of God and I just I want to be that person Sarah who's on the beach.
In the fragrance of Christ or his glory is rated a radiant out of Maine and I know I'd probably fall down on the job there but that,
that point I think when we walk with God when we trust him and we live with him and we know him without any doubt,
it just flows out of us and they may not be drawn to Clive or Kathryn but I'll I have every confidence they are drawn to the Living God in Me.
And they are.
Sarah:
[56:36] One how beautiful for all of us I love what you said because it was my one of my favorite scriptures or talks about the disciples they've been they could tell they had been with Jesus and what,
more beautiful compliment could anybody give or not
become what does anybody would say about any of us that man I can tell that Clive or Sarah or whoever has been with God and you just said something so beautiful about that we could just be servants and I think the world as a whole,
would be such a better place is if all of us could really just grasp what it would look like to be servants and just to serve in whatever area were in wherever we show up,
coffee shop at work that we would just have a little more of that humility to come and just love people as they are wherever they're at no hidden agenda no nothing nothing of our gain
get out of a relationship or whatever it is but just to go hey maybe they need a hello even a simple hello and a smile my,
make a big difference to them today.
Clive:
[57:38] Yeah and for them who many people are really struggling to get a bowl of rice literally I mean even more than the scare of covid they have this sense of really wanting to feed their family,
and so there are many different ways you can do that in a small way but I think what we're doing Sarah's were beginning to answer this more this deeper question about what it is to be this person in another place,
and I want to come back to how accessible what we do,
in a small way is available to every believer and we should be doing that but it's this perspective and so one of the passages is I don't know how often you get to hear this but Jesus is writing and Luke,
and he's writing in verse in chapter 17 and verse 7 it's very interesting because he starts with suppose and this is where he's wanting them to imagine that there's somebody else,
okay and so he's putting them in this imaginary mode he says suppose you were you had a servant plowing,
we're looking after your sheep would you say to the servant when he comes in from the field come along now and sit down to eat would you not rather say prepare my supper get yourself ready and wheat or on me while I eat and drink,
after that you may eat and drink woot he thanked the servant because he did what he was told to do now get this he turns it around,
he says so you also,
he speaking to his disciples he speaking to you Sarah and he's speaking to me so you also when you have done everything that you were told to do should say we are unworthy servants and we have only done our duty.
Sarah:
[59:07] It's good it's good.
Clive:
[59:08] You know what in you.
Shut off all this business and activity we call missions or even church and we just go back to the basics that we are just servants,
and to be happy and content with I'm just a servant that has this privilege to live out my faith and if whoever's listening to that there's somebody next door there's somebody May well be hurting more than you,
and for you to be able to translate,
the Living God in your own personal story and to be able to communicate that in in words but in facial expression and heart-to-heart and begin that Journey with that person,
God can use him you don't have to go to Indonesia.
Sarah:
[59:53] That's very true clever got to ask because I feel like part of it is being able to see these things and to be a servant means we sometimes need to slow down.
And I feel like just as I've gotten to observe you over the years or just hear you talk you and Kathryn have.
Clive:
[1:00:11] It's called old age.
Sarah:
[1:00:13] You slowed out now tonight I feel like you do such a great job of when people are with you,
you are very present and you make it very known that you're here in your in this moment with them I've never experienced you to be looking at your phone or experienced anything else what could you just help all of us who may be struggling a little more with,
it's a plate right and it's partly American Plate and there's other places in the world that could be like that so don't totally bash Americans but we do have some issues we could all say
just about we are tied to our phones or our screens are just it's not even that just the neck the next thing and sometimes we miss them
current moment because we just have so many other things to do and that's not all wrong but what could you just maybe encourage with us about.
How to just be a little more in a moment and present you have anything that you could share with us.
Clive:
[1:01:04] Well somebody called it the tyranny of the urgent.
Sarah:
[1:01:08] Yes yes.
Clive:
[1:01:09] And I do notice because when you cross countries you do notice,
these people are much for example in Bali they're just so much more polite and intersections and letting people through and road rage is rare I mean you cut in here,
people don't like this whole Lane for me all the way to our Fallon is mine Google map says it's mine and how dare you enter that space.
Sarah:
[1:01:31] Yes right right.
Clive:
[1:01:35] I know none of these people here on this listening would ever consider that.
Sarah:
[1:01:38] We don't have road rage.
Clive:
[1:01:39] But I want to go back to just rather than something practical of how to do I think everybody needs to interpret that I want to go even further back into it and again it comes back to a spiritual root it.
And understanding I think for me I'm an a-type and I've Done big projects and I used to manage a multimillion-dollar flight program and I bought and sold airplanes and I enjoyed all of that Rush.
But I think one of the things that has really surprised me on this journey is is yielding that God is in control.
And he can really do these things way better than me and so I in our first season out there Kathryn certainly I,
I've reflected back and realized I charge mountains and I raised money and I did things and I think the Lord and his time as gracefully Celiac live when did I asked you to do that,
so it my modest AIDS and 56 and and this Joy I have of being exactly where I am with an amazing wife Kathryn.
[1:02:45] Um I think.
To answer that question it all comes down to an issue priority I mentioned the self but it's an issue of priority and the priority comes simply down to the fact that God is telling his story he is at work.
I think one of the falsehoods is a lot of our planning and our strategizing comes from the notion that we know where God is going and what he's doing.
Sarah:
[1:03:10] Mmm that's good.
Clive:
[1:03:13] We don't know where he's going and we don't know what he's doing but we do know that he's at work in our communities he's at work in people's lives,
and we have glimpses in the end of scripture and maybe one people want to say that's happening now.
We really were asked to be busy about sharing this amazing story,
and so I defer to one of the great gifts and my life he's an elderly gentleman and I the Lord sent him to me,
he came across a library door he came across a library in Ireland a number of years ago I've never been in before,
and he standing beside me and he introduces himself and he says that he was a missionary that's how he started he gave me his name and he says I was a missionary in Nigeria for 35 years,
I said when you look back at that time what comes to mind he said Clive without doubt it was complete and absolute dependence on the Lord.
[1:04:11] And I said I don't hear that very often tell me about it.
Any told an extraordinary story I'll tell you next time you have me over from Nigeria of how God provided a suit and money for a ring and a wife and.
I've since met with the many times and I called him about three weeks ago from Indonesia and I he remembered me and he says I'm 19 now,
now he's sitting in a house by himself with a suit and a tie on,
he says I walk down to the shop and get my food every day and his wife is in a home,
she is she is hasn't been seen for because of covid for six months and I had two questions for him I think they'll be helpful to us I said.
[1:05:02] I asked him I said what do you think of this covid business I beg your pardon but first question I asked him Sara was are you lonely.
And he said lonely Clive how could I be lonely I've got the Lord.
[1:05:24] And he said you know it is this immediacy it's this quickness that he goes to this.
Perspective that God is with him he is planning my steps he is heaven waiting for me the second question I asked him I said what do you think of this covid business.
In this was his answer and we know that in all things God does good for those who love him.
And are called to his purposes all things Clive even.
What is covid when God is preparing good things okay and that that is something good sir.
Sarah:
[1:06:10] That is something good.
Clive:
[1:06:12] How many times have we looked at that scripture everywhere Romans 8:28,
but to own that and so I this is my answer to the question I begin to answer I have slowed down because,
I'm now delayed going back I got to get some more some oral surgery and that means now that after surgery I have to be here for two weeks because he won't let me fly,
and I still have to do five days in quarantine entering the country in a hotel by myself and I checked with my wife,
and she has approved that and her approach is my approach this is God he's at work.
Sarah:
[1:06:48] Hmm.
Clive:
[1:06:50] And today earlier today I met a guy I held a door open and he entered and it turned out that it was somebody I needed to meet I didn't know I needed to meet and you see when you live this less scripted life,
and you allow God to fit into it,
he can do what he wants to do and he brings conversations he brings thoughts he brings places that he can show himself and so we're going to give him some room.
Sarah:
[1:07:13] Yes yes.
Clive:
[1:07:16] We're going to make some room and if we're if our schedule and our resources are full of,
activities and fun things to do the problem is we're we're on a journey to be happy and to be peaceful and to be content,
and in many times we're going the wrong way.
Back off curl up on that corner on that couch there and open the word of God listen to another podcast from Sarah.
Sarah:
[1:07:42] That's High Praise I don't know about that but there's probably a lot of other good.
Clive:
[1:07:46] Did you hear what I'm saying Sarah me group make room for God,
in your in your in your schedule and this be surprised I think the other thing too is to be at ease when there's quiet in the silence to enjoy the space what was the first thing that Adam was given,
when he was created he was given all we hear about is God taking the day off yeah but guess what.
Adam had that day with God he had all day the first day in creation he had with God.
Sarah:
[1:08:16] Yeah yeah.
Clive:
[1:08:18] He didn't have to do anything else but just to be with him that's before the you know the snake turned up and.
Sarah:
[1:08:24] Crazy stuff happened no sir.
Clive:
[1:08:25] But I encourage you guys to slow down and make room for God in your life.
Sarah:
[1:08:28] Yes Clive that so good sadly like the time goes so fast we have conversations before we kind of wrap this out do you have anything else that you want to share with us before we end our time.
Clive:
[1:08:40] Sir I just want to thank you and will and what you guys do here and blessings on sharing this good word out to people,
and I just trust that somebody's hearing something today that will give them a glimmer of hope,
about a crack in the wall in Ireland where there's a glimmer that comes through that dark wall and his name is Jesus and I just pray and hope that there's something that's been shared there's a crack in the wall and your
life and maybe the walls closing in on you and and I don't mean to take away from that but I encourage you that,
to turn your heart and your orientation,
to God through his son Jesus and let go of some stuff let go of some injuries maybe people have done to you,
and turn your face and ask him here's a prayer a prayer at have for you each is that,
ask God to reveal himself to you personally show himself to you in a way that you and after a while you begin to recognize him it'll be something in a song it'll be something in a piece of scripture
it'll be something a memory that will come out of nowhere that,
but when it accompanies you with joy and peace may be something that you even an extra level of joy and peace in your heart feels lifted this is the mark of the spirit of God.
[1:10:06] And begin to thank him but asked him to show himself to you because he wants to show himself to you he wants to know you and he wants you to know him,
of all the gods around the world
whether the Hindu gods or other gods of majority religions around the world Our God the true creator God is the only God who wants to be known
and he wants to know you what did the woman of the well saying she went to Samaria she had a whole world turned upside down and she said come do you want to meet the one who knows all about me,
and she had a bunch of stuff that.
Sarah:
[1:10:41] Mmm Yeah.
Clive:
[1:10:42] Not everybody like so that's my prayer and I wish you all every blessing and thank you for having me on today.
Sarah:
[1:10:50] Of course Clive thank you so much for being here I do have one last question you've kind of answered it a little bit but I'll give you a chance to add something else if you want to,
because the show is called now that something good,
can you just do have anything just other random good things I feel bad asking you because you really have shared so many good great things with us already and there's no qualifier could be anything just one last good.
Clive:
[1:11:14] Yeah you know we just look at present history and I think one of the things that both is true about the people in the United States is one of the one of the great values of Safety and Security and comfort
foot and those are good things in themselves but this last year the world has shrimant rumored and the Earth has moved
in many ways we could never have imagined and I just want to come back to the core message of scripture,
and I can't get away from it okay because it's a great message it's a good message God wants us to know him and to be with him and despite,
despite difficulties challenges that job relational issues friends have let us down
maybe you've been through covert and it really took the legs out underneath you maybe you've known somebody who's it was gone from covid and I'm sorry for that,
but I come back to the fact that the message in the hope that we have in Jesus is a good message and you can have that good message
and it's not just for you it's for your husband it's for your wife it's for your kids and it's for your people that you meet and so get on board with that good that's that's,
something good.
Sarah:
[1:12:27] That is definitely something good well thank you climb so much for being here it's been a real pleasure.
Clive:
[1:12:32] You have most welcome God bless you Sarah.